Kundalini and psychedelics / entheogens

Yes when you have your higher chakras open they can see this - they see the qualities, not the atoms and people, and we all are doing something in terms of qualities; it's one single whole with many qualities. As long as you improve - they all fit together, the smaller things we do, and any enlightenment experience we have can directly elevate the world; when you do it in the direction of the worse - you cannot have such experience, because the pieces won't go together.

Yes but this spiritual height has to be balanced with more efforts on material realm - this is what I have learnt for now, and slowly practice. I practice the material aspects of Buddhism, and work with my lower chakras.

The problem is that all this seems to be very high, but it's overly a masculine energy - the energy of Sky. It has to be balanced with even stronger Earth energy ..otherwise you feel like Ruler of the World, but then, your material outcome is so poor that you cannot support this body any more; you cannot do your work - the Material is Feminine principle, it's local and it's ruled by negative principle of existence. For some people, it does not fail, but for some people - they forget themselves into high things and slowly lose their connection with the "low", but the "low" they need for every day life - once they lose it, they cannot achieve anything.

So in spiritual realms, it's a thing to fight for - to create strong material roots without losing the connection with spiritual realms; it's the balance of yin and yang, and as Taoist philosophy tells us, or Hermetics, or Buddhism - you can only achieve things by being balanced, you cannot be in one extreme.

I am a very rational thinker and it's easy to solve things for material world - the engineering, sciences, etc. -; but this global consciousness - I can see that I need to, and now very strongly before my time is over, to concentrate on these mundane things, to change and heal my psychology in this material realm; and I hope to do this job for many. To remind and teach things I have learnt for myself - I went through the theory and I think I got the keys of what actually works; at least I got the very basic theorems, which Buddhists believe, and saw how they could be applied to material world - also I already have some experiences. I rather ignored these parts of Buddhism before, despite I learnt them, but now I can see them more directly from the experience. I am now 40 yrs old and in this age, people turn to material stability - it becomes more practical; when you are younger, it does not matter your situation, but you can somehow cope, but starting from 40, you feel really bad if things are not stable. Also it's the age when people start to seek stability - the Earth element. I have to finish this middle age crisis properly and then I can go.

I also think Universe is in middle-age crisis - I think it's the center of time ..behind us we now have one complete infinity, and in the future, the energy is growing and thus there is more and more time in same amount of base time; but I think in last years maybe you can call it 2012, but I think it's this period of Time where the base time of reality is at it's center point ..I somehow felt this meditatively. So it's the middle age of Universe as well - probably it starts to change in these crisis. This is my personal feeling, but very strong ..that something important is going on in this sense. So my age 40 is more or less at the same time :) I think the Cosmic Energy is in constant growth, so also there is more and more time in the same amount of base time, but I think if this energy would be constant, the current time would be visible as center - infinity before and infinity beyond. Like 0. I think also that the energy of point now went over infinity, so that the Space itself starts to become much more alive, and linear growth of things in Universe were replaced with exponential growth, which this energy is doing - pointing straight to infinity. This is all my personal belief, I somehow sensed this, but did not read it from anywhere - but I did read many things, about events and changes, which look similar; but I think it's much bigger thing than one epoch ending and another beginning - it's the biggest epoch what even exists :) So this much about the improbability of our time :) That we live in the science and AI revolution - this is much less improbable, but it's also the special time in human history, and funny and miraculous that we have been born into this thing these times ;)

Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts more fully. I agree with psychedelics journeys potentially being exhausting! Thank you for reminding me to take vitamins. :-)

And definitely - very hard to bring back memories of everything that went on or all the insights you had. Sometimes I'm 'told' in the journey that it's okay to forget - the important thing is that the work went on. I have the same experience you do, of the journey being a bit like a dream and 'escaping' quickly. I always try to write down as much as I can and do a 'mandala' (a kind of non-verbal expression of what went on) as part of the start of me integration and to hold on to as much of it as I can. I think that is what you say, too - and that this is not as powerful as the experience itself.

I haven't done the kind of work you have, I think, when you describe recognising people from how you knew them in your previous journeys. My journeys have all been completely internal, with (other then knowing my sitter and others 'walking the floor' were there to support me. I didn't do any work through interpersonal interaction. It sounds interesting to do it the way you describe.

What you say about losing the ego, but needing to retain a flexible but strong enough ego to be functional in everyday life is very important. I sounds like you went through a difficult time, and you have done well to recover some new structures that serve you again in practical life. Ones that are now better aligned to your values. We do need some defences and we need to be able to engage with material reality. I hadn't heard the term 'higher ego' before. I wonder if what that refers to is what I might call the Self or my observer consciousness.

I think you have developed your meditation practice more deeply than I have, and it sounds like it gives you access to the same places that psychedelics can, in a safer, more consistent and enduring way, which is beautiful. For a couple of years, as I was doing holotropic breathwork and later psychedelics, I meditated intensively - around 3 hours a day. I did have 'psychedelic' kind of experiences that way, but it would trigger energy to an extent I wasn't getting enough sleep, so I stopped meditating, and I haven't ever really gone back to it. It is something I feel I should come back to as I totally see the value of it.

Thank you again for telling us of your thoughts and experience. I think it helps all of us if we share - we can all learn from each other. 🙏

Add another meditative practice for calmness and relaxation - often, relaxation is added to end of meditation. With this, maybe, you can get sleep better. You need to get over restlessness, as Buddha named this quality.

This "higher ego" conception ..I don't know, how to call this.

Buddhists have a conception of "self-love" for example; for all the things in this world, you have to attribute with love, not self. If everybody hated themselves, they would be so fast to break that you would have nothing to do with love - they are already broken and broken more if you go to love them. Without self-love, any kind of love becomes meaningless. Also, you are the one you can often help the most. So, the bad karma against yourself is bad karma indeed, first you hurt yourself and then you get some bad karma for hurting yourself, and this hurts you more ..I suppose it's like this :) Indeed, people can go too far by hurting those, who have hurt themselves - for some people, it seems to be like addiction; then, maybe some others did hurt themselves to get something more profound, for example.

But this "higher ego"; I mean this: if you get past ego, you are in heightened state, and partially - many things in the world start to help you, so you do better in a sense. But when I transcended over ego, it was destroyed into pieces - and over a long time, I started to miss many natural reactions other people have. I don't want to get back the original ego, because my experience is definitely more profound. But, what I took granted on ego level - in some ways, I had ego level, but in other ways this was already transcended when I was born -, those were often somehow useful things to protect myself, and to think in material terms. Many things I could not doubt, which I started to doubt later. When you come back with spiritual reasoning - you reach back to conclusion, that you also do things for yourself, and you compete in society to some degree, you do all the things an ego-centered person would do. For example, even spiritual help - you do not want to provide it fullest to people attacking those very same principles to their core, for example. With ego, I had some higher, aligned structure keeping me constantly connected with basic survival conceptions - as my ego transcended, I lost many of those principles and thus, indeed, started to struggle. In later years now, I have started to miss some of this balance, a direct attitude and strong inner desire to fight my position in society and in material realm, for example. This, anyway, does not have to be the same ego - spiritually as well, as I said, you finally prove yourself to be worthy, worthy of your own help; and you are the closest person, who can help. If you have strong root chakra, when your higher chakras open, you probably wont lose connection with yourself - or, rather, it might need very open Solar Plexus, which connects to "self-worth, self-confidence, and self-esteem" is what I mean. I think, when I was more on the ego plane, I had much stronger activity of Solar Plexus. I think this is the chakra, which sees you as one person, not part of the collective - root chakra, already, sees things as compositions; as such, you are for example a composition of traits of your family (crown chakra connects to your future family or soul family, which is your desire and unity, higher love; with crown-connected people you give birth to the new humanity, a new culture - root connects with your past family).

So I think what I mean with "higher ego", is strong and open Solar Plexus to create a personal desire. I think LSD somewhat destroys this component - which might be a reason, why some hippies ended up very sadly; without personal desire, this can happen (but it won't happen with everybody taking LSD). My root chakra is a catastrophe - I found out I have shame related to all mundane activity, as going to shop or even having money. I have shame even about the fact that root chakra exists and is located, for some reason, on the same level with sexual organs and the butt - so what others might see as earthly power, is all full of shame for me. Lately I noticed this; it's not a visible shame as I don't think about this, but when I started to meditate on root chakra, I found out that this energy is full of completely unreasoned shame; and when I have to, for example, wash the clothes outside so that everybody sees - I feel shame, I have some desire to do all these works hidden somewhere, left alone indoors - then I do some everyday jobs, otherwise I feel shame. So it's a complex topic, but "higher ego" would definitely feel washing clothes outside so that everybody sees, just a virtue - I think Russian and Italian people are most able to think like this, they are strongest with such effects of the root chakra (my father is Russian, but also several generations in Estonia, and I don't have such Russian-Italian power very strongly). Italians I have seen, they always do mundane things with remarkable effortlessness, and positive flow - Italian would not feel shame washing clothes outside. Others, I can see, tend to avoid such thing so they do have shame. This is one part of ego - it's perfectly capable of serving yourself without shame. Also, many things doctors need to do - I think for many people it would be somewhat shameful, even to talk about those topics.

But the other part, this higher ego would be the structure, which balances me to see something good and desirable in money, and financial outcomes etc., and to take those things seriously ..I think the condition of LSD, or something LSD added to my personality - it's a deep vision, and vision about the future of humankind etc., but as I can see in later years, there is something utterly healthy in having this ego thing, and I think "higher ego" is as good wording for this as any other. I think if doctors say LSD people are sick - they mean these qualities, as they show in movies how some LSD people live quite literally in their own shit, I mean there are such kinds of videos where they have been collapsed together in their trash, and quite large amounts of it. This is extreme example of ego-losing, which has not happened to me.

I also see lack of ego structures in my own vision that I always need to wait for achieving something great - I cannot even reason having money without this. But then, many people achieve very little things and they perfectly have money - I started to think about this; I need to remake my money thoughts to have it without stress and without people pressuring me - otherwise, first, money is not stable at all (I need to achieve to promote myself into right to ask money) and second, I probably won't have it when I'm old. With todays technology and science, having money to live does not take much effort, it rather takes some attitude - this, I think in Buddhism is called "living here and now", which is the central attribute of Zen. To survive in the normal human way, not wait for some superhuman powers ..this means, a healthy psychology to protect your own existence. I quite much lack this, for me money is always connected with some work success - not just, say, simple everyday jobs and some structuring of the material world; with most people it seems they don't need more. With many rich people as well - you can see them living quite comfortably, without much stress. With me, when I have money - it's too connected in my head, I always relate this to lots of stress, innovation, etc. This way I would be finally dead, as my stress tolerance is rather lower, than higher than before - now in 40s.

In Buddhism, thus, there are conceptions of self-love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsL9hgZfT7Q&t=46s ..this video was quite positive for me, I want to learn all about materialism now, in a way it exists in Buddhism.

I think there are also ego traits on superego level, which society has as ego. On social level, I think, there should be some ego loss. Academics have strong ego related to connecting all the achievements with them - I see them always hurt if someone is smarter than an academy, they protect something of their collective strongly, as it's having ego. Officials and police, I see quite clearly, the way they cooperate means they protect their past decisions and policies with ego - you can see the drug law, for example, does not make many special cases; I think this is the ego of this whole structure - without an ego, it would be flexible; for me the official system is hard - it does not have direct senses of facts, it's rather very dogmatic and fallen into it's belief, as ego does. As well the companies and corporations - there are strong ego qualities in them; they do not manage to be free. As well as science - it's not skeptical, which is reasoning from all aspects, but it dogmatically believing something; dogmatic skepticism is kind of contradiction, but in science - you can see this. As well as doctors - I think for spiritual people, doctors simply make up the conditions in their head, they cannot think along; still they are quite sure in those - they make up conditions, which are related to how they perceive the world, on something like cliché. In all this I see a social conditioning has created strong ego, some kind of belief, which they cannot doubt or guess - for example, how has dogma appeared in science? We see Christians had such dogma - for example, they could not believe new facts about the shape of Earth and started to attack people; before, they fought the same kind of dogmas of the older religion. Then, science started with fighting the Dogma as Christians did - but, for now, they reached something and suddenly started to collectively believe in this; this collective ego is the reflection of oneself one creates by watching themselves; the science has watched their position so long that it's not free and searching any more - but it believes in this like believing a dogma. So another revolution must follow, releasing us from this dogma - I see, about spiritual things, science now often fails with things I simply got proven, on most basic facts ..I think the same kind of people, who learns things and then collectively associates themselves with this, are behind old Roman system, then Christianity, and then Science - every time, the new one fighting the old with same reasoning, but then falling into the same trap. This shows that on collective level - superego needs to get over it's own ego.

So there is a positive kind of ego, and a negative kind of superego - one, which falls to the same trap as ego did before. We live in a non-enlightened society, an enlightenment not on personal, but on social level - and we see it did always lead to wars; I think the Roman war against the Christians was the most violent, then the Christian war against the Science was less violent, and then the Science war against Christians was even less violent - current Spiritualism or something like this, it now needs to fight against science; as we are more evolved - this is probably even less violent war, probably on financial and political level to get the freedom back, but then, it's a serious thing anyway. To get over this false ego or false superego again - it seems to always come back, as simple people run around the money and they build some beliefs around it; even if scientists simply said that they don't know, therefore they don't believe - but then, those simple people started to believe the opposite (skepticism is not about not having skepticism in the opposite). Now when many people have found new truth, which is much more proven than before - but about things they could not prove before ..we can see the Science falls like a Church. Or, maybe it's not right to call it Science any more ;) Btw. I don't talk about all the Science, and I don't talk about all the Church, and I also don't talk about all the Roman Empire - I mostly love Roman Empire, Church and the Science, and many other things, like Buddhism :)

Michael Molina, from the Emerging Sciences Foundation, recently interviewed Jonathan Dinsmore who is a "a psychological scientist specializing in non-ordinary states of consciousness, spiritually transformative experiences, beliefs/worldview, and the relationship of all these things to well-being and mental health." Jonathan does not specifically address the issues being discussed here, but it is a beginning of the needed consenus that Sameer is raising. Here's the link:

I see what you mean now, Sameer. Thanks.

I am for ever saying I'm not sure what I have felt really is kundalini (I certainly have not had a full awakening) and perhaps it falls into the different form that is emerging - pranotthan - you are talking about. I have only recently started calling my experience kundalini as I had to call it something, to talk about it, and various people who write about these things told me it was.

Certainly one experience involved unitary consciousness and a couple involved a very strong sense of energy / wind / fire / light / presence, whatever you want to call it, coming through me to the extent I wasn't sure if my bodily system / brain might be damaged, and my ego was definitely sidelined to being just an observer. It became totally incidental to the experience. I was taken over by whatever it was, and the last time felt overpoweringly feminine and divine - I presumed it was what people call Shakti.

But - I still wonder what this is, given that, apart from a period of between one and two years of meditating 3 hours a day (two slots of 1.5 hours am and pm) I have not engaged in systematic spiritual practice. In fact I stopped meditating as I didn't feel I should 'force' whatever it was. It felt potentially dangerous to do anything but go with it when it comes up. I only meditated when I felt 'called' to do so, and the energy came up again.

So maybe my experience falls more into your category of being something different, that is evolving. That then raises the question of how this relates to the 'real' kundalini ... And also, maybe, whether in the East / ancient times there were also different forms of energy coming up for people ...

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Actually - one more thought. Maybe what you're saying does fit with the idea of a Western complex, as that reflects (as I am thinking of it) experience on a different cliff face of the mountain - i.e. as Westerners build an understanding of the energy from their exposure to the Eastern teachings and practice (different from the Eastern understanding due to their totally different mind-set and culture) they have experiences that are subtly different, which increasingly builds up a Western 'kundalini' complex (or whatever we want to call it), which reinforces the experience being different - maybe, like your pranotthan phenomena. Anthony Giddens (sociologist) has a useful notion of 'structuration' - the way thought and experience are socially constructed by mutually reinforcing each other.

Thanks very much for your comments, Joe. I can certainly not claim to have had a full awakening or to be stabilised in a state of Cosmic Consciousness.

With warm wishes, Jeannet